tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post9152429056816472627..comments2024-03-19T00:43:35.769-04:00Comments on Freemasons For Dummies: Are Dummies and Idiots Wrecking Freemasonry?Christopher Hodapphttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04201859873755654395noreply@blogger.comBlogger59125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-83418623449732113402008-11-08T11:18:00.000-05:002008-11-08T11:18:00.000-05:00How refreshing! I have In MY research about Freema...How refreshing! <BR/>I have In MY research about Freemasonry come across the writings of Albert Mackey, Manley Hall, Arthur Edward Waite, and Albert Pike. <BR/>I could not have of it and thought, "do many Freemasons believe this crap?"<BR/>I did, and still do give some credence to the book "Born in Blood" by John J. Robinson. But even then, that may be because I would like to think of Freemasonry as being something more than the Kiwanis, the Lion's Club or the men's version of the Ladies benevolent Society. <BR/>Is it?tao1776https://www.blogger.com/profile/13829911813257886445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-70710844247070026222008-10-05T04:48:00.000-04:002008-10-05T04:48:00.000-04:00Tom, here's a little tale as a followup to your co...Tom, here's a little tale as a followup to your comment:<BR/><BR/><I> I lost my initiative to hurry up and join the YR/SR - not because there isn't anything to learn, but because (as Justa says) I haven't felt that I've gotten all that I can from the Blue lodge yet </I><BR/><BR/>One of the PMs of my Mother Lodge sailed here to Canada as a new MM at age 21 in 1912 from England. I digress to say he told me he saw huge icebergs and it was a wonder his ship didn't hit one. Another ship not too many days later wasn't so lucky. She was the Titanic.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, dear old Johnny died three weeks shy of 101. He never joined anything but his Craft Lodge. He said there was all he needed in the Craft Lodge.<BR/><BR/>What I'm saying Tom is if you wait to learn all you can in Lodge, you'll never join anything else. Johnny spent almost 80 years as a Mason and never finished.<BR/><BR/>The degrees can be interesting (when well done) and you can widen your sphere of Masonic acquaintances. So there are reasons to join if that's your inclination. Just pick the right time in your life (i.e. when you have time).<BR/><BR/>I'd say something nice about the Scottish Rite but I don't have to kiss up to Brent as I've already been published in <I>Heredom</I>. ;)-<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://justamason.blogspot.com" REL="nofollow">Justa</A>Still Justa Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18251151452545005294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-76724547368134404232008-10-05T00:19:00.000-04:002008-10-05T00:19:00.000-04:00In some cases, what you say is true, Nick: From wh...In some cases, what you say is true, Nick:<BR/><BR/><I> From what I have heard, the purpose of the Rites is to "continue" the story like a continuing education class. </I><BR/><BR/>In some cases, the degrees have absolutely nothing to do with a plot-line of the building of King Solomon's Temple (such as a couple of the Templar orders). But they may take a specific Masonic principle and expound on it a bit. There is certainly value in the concordant bodies. I like the ceremonial of some of them. But I think almost anything you could consider Masonic in them is something which you can find, in one form or another, in the Craft Lodge degrees.<BR/><BR/>I must add I appreciate Chris's and Joshua's comments on this particular thread. <BR/><BR/>JustaStill Justa Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18251151452545005294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-18404161595213520812008-10-04T23:59:00.000-04:002008-10-04T23:59:00.000-04:00If a brother wants more, join Scottish and York Ri...<I>If a brother wants more, join Scottish and York Rite, which was created to continue the story and give those brothers that want more an opportunity.</I><BR/><BR/>Or they can study Zen. Or Taoism. <BR/><BR/>Once I realized that our ritual has been changed so much over the years, it, I lost my initiative to hurry up and join the YR/SR - not because there isn't anything to learn, but because (as Justa says) I haven't felt that I've gotten all that I can from the Blue lodge yet.Tom Accuostihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07005315193581153959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-34529171775700246622008-10-04T21:13:00.000-04:002008-10-04T21:13:00.000-04:00I've joined both, and am a Grand officer in Royal ...<I>I've joined both, and am a Grand officer in Royal Arch, but I still maintain you can find all the lessons of Freemasonry—more than you could study in a lifetime—in the three degrees.<BR/><BR/>What Masons have to do is what is instructed to them: "to make a daily advancement." That's done by study and contemplation. They're not going to get it at festivals.</I><BR/><BR/>I agree with you Justa. I, myself, have never ventured out of the Blue Lodge in my three years in Masonry. Unfortunately, I think brothers get wrapped up in trying to read something between the lines without thinking about the simple and meaningful lessons presented in the first three degrees. During my years in the Blue Lodge, I have memorized many parts of the ritual and always seem to draw something new out of it. <BR/><BR/>From what I have heard, the purpose of the Rites is to "continue" the story like a continuing education class. I am not sure who explained it but I heard that to explain the Rites relationship to the Blue Lodge is to say that a Mason is like a three foot tall board that can be 29 feet long. The Board is always that same height no matter how far you go along it.<BR/><BR/>NickMillennial Freemasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10365269439441609340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-27155819789368788562008-10-04T18:36:00.000-04:002008-10-04T18:36:00.000-04:00Chris, there's so much to go through, I'll have to...Chris, there's so much to go through, I'll have to read it a couple of times. But I want to address something Nick just wrote:<BR/><BR/><I>If a brother wants more, join Scottish and York Rite, which was created to continue the story and give those brothers that want more an opportunity.</I><BR/><BR/>I've joined both, and am a Grand officer in Royal Arch, but I still maintain you can find all the lessons of Freemasonry—more than you could study in a lifetime—in the three degrees.<BR/><BR/>What Masons have to do is what is instructed to them: "to make a daily advancement." That's done by study and contemplation. They're not going to get it at festivals.<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://justamason.blogspot.com" REL="nofollow">Justa</A>Still Justa Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18251151452545005294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-7621495108613304602008-10-04T12:26:00.000-04:002008-10-04T12:26:00.000-04:00They've picked up a few Urban, er, Masonic Legends...<I>They've picked up a few Urban, er, Masonic Legends here and there and pass them off as historical lessons. This seems to satisfy their own internal belief that the Craft is in some way descended from the Sumerians, but ultimately, I think, does a disservice to the Fraternity, and those who join believing them as literal truths.</I><BR/><BR/>Tom,<BR/><BR/>Sadly, I think it is a hope for something more by some brothers. I have always been a pragmatist believing that one should take observations as they appear. Maybe we build up too much excitement and some brothers become bored or disappointed. As I have said before, candidate introduction and education is all about managing expectations, not too little but also not too much. <BR/><BR/>If a brother wants more, join Scottish and York Rite, which was created to continue the story and give those brothers that want more an opportunity.<BR/><BR/>NickMillennial Freemasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10365269439441609340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-13595934717299246872008-10-04T10:03:00.000-04:002008-10-04T10:03:00.000-04:00TBC, do it in your own house, not mine.TBC, do it in your own house, not mine.Christopher Hodapphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04201859873755654395noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-63940148671445084242008-10-04T08:42:00.000-04:002008-10-04T08:42:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Tubal Cainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00704479584240584425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-48559298852944901112008-10-03T17:35:00.000-04:002008-10-03T17:35:00.000-04:00This is reflected in the number of men given the r...<I>This is reflected in the number of men given the ritual that never return. </I><BR/><BR/>Or possibly in the number of men <I>giving</I> the ritual who seem to remain clueless.<BR/><BR/>Oh dang, did I say that out loud?<BR/><BR/>More charitably, there are a number of men - usually PMs - who give some of the wackiest explanations and interpretations of our workings to the n00bs, many of whom insist that our mythology is absolutely true. <BR/><BR/>They've picked up a few Urban, er, Masonic Legends here and there and pass them off as historical lessons. This seems to satisfy their own internal belief that the Craft is in some way descended from the Sumerians, but ultimately, I think, does a disservice to the Fraternity, and those who join believing them as literal truths.Tom Accuostihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07005315193581153959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-9020390305170130432008-10-03T12:03:00.000-04:002008-10-03T12:03:00.000-04:00I hesitated to write back initially when I saw whe...I hesitated to write back initially when I saw where this seemed to be going. Thanks for bringing it back around Chris…and yes, it is clear that the only thing we know for sure is that we are continually advancing our proving that we don’t know much for sure. Today’s major new discovery is labeled the dark ages tomorrow. <BR/><BR/>Brother Tom,<BR/><BR/>I think we agree. The candidate who simply goes through a degree gains little. That is what I was trying to describe. The initiation process is a continual process. The ritual must be followed with meditation and contemplation, study, prayer, etc…. or it is empty and will remain of little value. This is reflected in the number of men given the ritual that never return. <BR/><BR/>BUT, when the secrets of Masonry are coveted, as one should covet them, when the true jewel of esoteric knowledge is guarded in a man’s heart, then the beauty of the Craft is realized in the self actualization of its individual members.<BR/><BR/>Pike, Hall, and the like provide a glimpse at how fulfilling the esoteric can be, for these men, the energy poured forth in their writing, the journey, as it should be, was personal, and therefore, sometimes difficult to evaluate on academic terms alone.Cliff Porterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08225842898777528860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-20800493139273750152008-10-03T11:58:00.000-04:002008-10-03T11:58:00.000-04:00More cutting and pasting without an original thoug...More cutting and pasting without an original thought from you.Christopher Hodapphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04201859873755654395noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-32046006862185506812008-10-03T04:40:00.000-04:002008-10-03T04:40:00.000-04:00"Truth is not lost, yet it must be sought for and ..."Truth is not lost, yet it must be sought for and found. Reality is ever-present - dimensionless yet all-prevailing. Man - creature of attitudes and desires, and servant of impressions and opinions - cannot, with the wavering unbalance of an untutored mind, learn to know that which he himself does not possess. As man attains a quality, he discovers that quality, and recognizes about him the thing newborn within himself. Man is born with eyes, yet only after long years of sorrow does he learn to see clearl y and in harmony with the Plan. He is born with senses, but only after long experience and fruitless strivings does he bring these senses to the temple and lays them as offerings upon the altar of the great Father, who alone does all things well and with understanding. Man is, in truth, born in the sin of ignorance, but with a capacity for understanding. He has a mind capable of wisdom, a heart capable of feeling, and a hand strong for the great work in life - truing the rough ashlar into the perfect sto ne.<BR/><BR/>What more can any creature ask than the opportunity to prove the thing he is, the dream that inspires him, the vision that leads him on? We have no right to ask for wisdom. In whose name do we beg for understanding? By what authority do we demand happiness? None of these things is the birthright of any creature; yet all may have them, if they will cultivate within themselves the thing that they desire. There is no need of asking, nor does any Deity bow down to give man these things that he desires. Man i s given by Nature, a gift, and that gift is the privilege of labor. Through labor he learns all things."<BR/><BR/>more crap from Manly p HallTubal Cainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00704479584240584425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-27474587728865597732008-10-02T23:51:00.000-04:002008-10-02T23:51:00.000-04:00Chris said:ISIDORE and HOWARD and TBC, et al.Not h...Chris said:<BR/><I>ISIDORE and HOWARD and TBC, et al.<BR/><BR/>Not here.<BR/>Not now.<BR/>Keep it civil.<BR/>Stay on topic.<BR/>Or play somewhere else.</I><BR/><BR/>I think I know a place, <A>http://burningtaper.blogspot.com/2008/03/masonic-pissing-contest-gets-corralled.html</A>Millennial Freemasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10365269439441609340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-79016542422506990632008-10-02T23:18:00.000-04:002008-10-02T23:18:00.000-04:00ISIDORE and HOWARD and TBC, et al.Not here. Not no...ISIDORE and HOWARD and TBC, et al.<BR/><BR/>Not here. <BR/>Not now. <BR/>Keep it civil. <BR/>Stay on topic. <BR/>Or play somewhere else.Christopher Hodapphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04201859873755654395noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-90712876191281114072008-10-02T22:59:00.000-04:002008-10-02T22:59:00.000-04:00in order to serve the vanity of a few old men such...<I>in order to serve the vanity of a few old men such as Brent Morris.</I><BR/><BR/>::sighs::<BR/><BR/>Man, is it me, or does there seem to be a different "bad guy" every week?<BR/><BR/>Anyway...<BR/><BR/><I> The fact that initiation is personal and can not be completed as journey without personal meditation and reflection on the part of the neophyte.</I><BR/><BR/>Bro. Cliff, I'm trying to look at this from a process perspective: new members who expect to go through some degree ceremonies and come out the other side as newly enlightened beings are doomed to disappointment. Many of those who knock on the door do so having read snippets and scraps that seem to verify the idea that Masons have come across some kind of tangible, esoteric knowledge. <BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, we tend to toss the degrees at them without explaining much about the degrees themselves, and when they're done, they get a dues card and invited to help out at the pancake breakfast. After a couple of years of this, most of them experience the disconnect between what they've read about - indeed, the myth about ourselves that we keep alive - and the reality of cleaning up scrambled eggs and bacon grease. <BR/><BR/>Of course, we Taoists understand that it's all connected, but it's very difficult to explain to somebody who expected to be surrounded by Ben Franklins that there are lessons top be found even in the kitchen. <BR/><BR/>Or in my lodge, <I>especially</I> in the kitchen.<BR/><BR/>There has got to be some kind of middle area, but I can't imagine how to describe it.Tom Accuostihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07005315193581153959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-49612292119773186272008-10-02T22:04:00.000-04:002008-10-02T22:04:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00665046632748752941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-16476669722932383442008-10-02T21:57:00.000-04:002008-10-02T21:57:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00665046632748752941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-60080675298924364042008-10-02T21:54:00.000-04:002008-10-02T21:54:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00665046632748752941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-68775499997601119742008-10-02T20:02:00.000-04:002008-10-02T20:02:00.000-04:00Sorry about the interruption.The Relevant Mason wr...Sorry about the interruption.<BR/><BR/>The Relevant Mason wrote:<BR/><I>"The idea of a heliocentric universe, the atom, the neutron, etc...were all laughable at one time. "</I><BR/><BR/>Likewise, the geocentric universe, Bishop Ussher's calendar, and the Aristotelian elements are laughable now.Christopher Hodapphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04201859873755654395noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-38891548348806225572008-10-02T19:53:00.000-04:002008-10-02T19:53:00.000-04:00'Howard Roarke' wrote:"Chris was just sucking up t...'Howard Roarke' wrote:<BR/><I>"Chris was just sucking up to Brent Morris looking for some bauble or award from the Scottish Rite. These guys will do anything for a bauble or a title."</I><BR/><BR/>As opposed to creating a grand lodge and titles of my own.<BR/><BR/>Besides, I'm a NMJ guy. I'd have to suck up to Bill McNaughton. But on the very rare occasion that I'm honored to get a bauble or a title (???), I don't go burn it in the parking lot.Christopher Hodapphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04201859873755654395noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-65635487448417347152008-10-02T19:43:00.000-04:002008-10-02T19:43:00.000-04:00The relevant Mason wrote:"I love Pike for his pass...The relevant Mason wrote:<BR/><BR/><I>"I love Pike for his passion, for his understanding of the truth and its separation from fact. I love Pike, because he was able to define "love" for himself and knew, in spite of Masonic scholars of his time sometimes disagreeing with him, force of will and visualization can accomplish much and provide a dynamic example for those who choose to follow it."</I><BR/><BR/>Brother Cliff, I don't disagree with that.Christopher Hodapphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04201859873755654395noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-56452281323188120782008-10-02T19:37:00.000-04:002008-10-02T19:37:00.000-04:00LOL Bro. TBC ;-)Chris was just sucking up to Brent...LOL Bro. TBC ;-)<BR/><BR/>Chris was just sucking up to Brent Morris looking for some bauble or award from the Scottish Rite. These guys will do anything for a bauble or a title.Howard Roarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06330868779452286221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-91700135652295887502008-10-02T19:27:00.000-04:002008-10-02T19:27:00.000-04:00"I do not believe that some “golden age” of esoter..."I do not believe that some “golden age” of esoteric Masonry has EVER really existed on a large scale within the Craft, and I would challenge anyone to identify it."<BR/><BR/>The Golden Age is a constant Brother and is as constant as consciousness or initiation. The "Golden Age" of esoteric Masonry was in the heart of Pike, Hall, Wilmshurst, and others like them who, constantly and against the grain, kept the "secret" of Masonry alive.<BR/><BR/>It is academically acceptable and laudable to claim a completely Anglo centric modern birth for Masonry because it is academically acceptable right now. That does not always prove the matter at hand. The idea of a heliocentric universe, the atom, the neutron, etc...were all laughable at one time. <BR/><BR/>The reason that the secrets of Masonry and the origins of the Craft are difficult to ascertain is that, as much as academic researchers would like a clean quotable lineage nicely bound in book format, it flies in the face of the fact. The fact that initiation is personal and can not be completed as journey without personal meditation and reflection on the part of the neophyte.<BR/><BR/>Masonry, its philosophies, and its secrets are sometimes gained in the vertical and not the horizontal. Meditation and personal insight are part of the mystical tradition. The secrets of Masonry are simply not available to the men who search for them in book format. <BR/><BR/>I love Pike, not for the text he researched, revamped, or stole as some claim. I love Pike for his passion, for his understanding of the truth and its separation from fact. I love Pike, because he was able to define "love" for himself and knew, in spite of Masonic scholars of his time sometimes disagreeing with him, force of will and visualization can accomplish much and provide a dynamic example for those who choose to follow it.<BR/><BR/>I think what Brother Josh is saying is that the argument is difficult because most are misunderstanding the original foundation and trying to turn it into the much debated origins argument. We must define the origin of Masonry to have that argument and most are searching for a physical starting point….this, by itself, misses the point and the argument can not even take place. It is a little like trying to run a race with men starting from the same point, or so they think, then running in opposite directions.<BR/><BR/>Caritas,<BR/><BR/>Cliff PorterCliff Porterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08225842898777528860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-65859865802499307282008-10-02T18:20:00.000-04:002008-10-02T18:20:00.000-04:00i did not know that defending pike and hall was no...i did not know that defending pike and hall was not done in a civil manner?<BR/><BR/>is that how it is handled with others who have a different perspective than the one purported to Dummies and Complete Idiots within the craft?<BR/><BR/>Now I'm a little buddy who acted un civil and attacked one?<BR/><BR/>all I know is that Pike and Hall will be open for discussion within Lodge, cc zain and williamhurst, etc... Dr. jacobs and daniel beresniak... I guess were just not suited for the Dummies and Iiots curriculum for masonic education....<BR/><BR/>maybe we'll catch up one day and leave the older writers alone and move into the 21st century with the prolific writings of morris and hodapp...<BR/>they sure are more committed than Hall or Pike ever were...Tubal Cainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00704479584240584425noreply@blogger.com