tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post6135383544620089869..comments2024-03-18T20:09:21.858-04:00Comments on Freemasons For Dummies: GL of Michigan Withdraws Recognition of ShrineChristopher Hodapphttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04201859873755654395noreply@blogger.comBlogger62125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-17719471160055669462013-12-22T00:53:20.728-05:002013-12-22T00:53:20.728-05:00kudos to the Grandmaster of Michigan for his asser...kudos to the Grandmaster of Michigan for his assertiveness in widrawing recognition to the shrine temple org,brought about by their inaction to suspend a member who was expelled by the Grandlodge.,Which constitute an insult to the power and authority of the grandlodge over appendant bodies.I do remember about 3 decades ago here in Manila Philippines when an arrogant shrine divan was not permitted by our Grandmaster to conduct ceremonials here in manila.they were forced to do it in manila Bay.<br />VW M.gonzalesPm,PDDGM GLPmodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12883485805156340723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-72430027092063153532012-09-24T20:45:33.985-04:002012-09-24T20:45:33.985-04:00Brother T, One must hold true to the ideals of Fre...Brother T, One must hold true to the ideals of Freemasonry in ALL aspects of their life. Good deeds alone are not sufficient, if you commit a criminal act ( understand the former brother plead guilty). When Masons are convicted of crimes it reflects on all of us and starts to reinforce in the minds of those that do not know any better that we are all bad people. A Crime is a Crime. When we look the other way for some Brothers and kick out others, what does that say about the organization? What does that say about they authority of the Grand Master? That is not the rules we swore to follow. You don't look the other way because you like the guy and he does good things when it suits him. There are few acceptable excuses for committing a crime, one that is not just against the people of Michigan but against all brother Masons. We have an obligation not only to uphold and respect the law of the state but to also uphold Masonic law. Either that or we are just what some like to think we are.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15764025428116226978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-51177789889063493102012-09-24T20:36:39.119-04:002012-09-24T20:36:39.119-04:00Well I don't know that particulars of the case...Well I don't know that particulars of the case. I do know that the Master of a Grand Lodge has the final word and that word is law. I think a few brothers should look in their laws and constitutions books. How the brother got there is not the question. He deserves his just due as do all brother but the Grand Master has authority over all regular masons in his area, there should be no argument.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15764025428116226978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-87627300138805998122012-03-19T09:24:03.819-04:002012-03-19T09:24:03.819-04:00Brother T, I can appreciate your position on the m...Brother T, I can appreciate your position on the matter. There are many who might disagree witht the position that the MWGM has taken. The fact remains that, at present, a plea of guilty has been entered in a court of law and the MWGM is the final authority as it regards interpretation of the Blue Book. Unless and until the MWGM's decision is overturned by the Grand Lodge in session, the former Brother is not a Mason in good standing. If the MWGM's decision is upheld, the only recourse is application for reinstatement in his Lodge after completion of any sentence that may be imposed by the Court. The Blue Book does not require a conviction or a finding of guilty in a civil court for Masonic charges to be upheld. That, of course, can be changed, but until it is, we have to live within our existing Masonic laws.<br /><br />Matt Shelton, PM<br />Pontiac #21sheltonmrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17736663733451329379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-57076839188858059092012-02-24T04:23:32.573-05:002012-02-24T04:23:32.573-05:00I am a Michigan Mason. I specifically joined to be...I am a Michigan Mason. I specifically joined to be a part of the charitable work and eventually become a Shriner. I was deeply impressed as a child when a poor kid I knew needed expensive medical care. The Shriners helped save that kid's life. That kid is now a doctor.<br /><br />I wonder if the GM and Imp have lost sight of the core Masonic values of Faith, Hope & Charity and how their actions affect not just a bunch of men playing dress up but the community they are an intricate part of. I make light of the ritual in the face of cold reality.<br /><br />The Shriners do important work for the community. In fact, they help those losing faith, regain it, those without hope see it, and those lacking charity, find it. When I hear how this situation may put the Shriners out of business, I think of a father to a little girl with no hair due to intial cancer treatments and just found out his insurance will not cover the bone marrow treatment that has a good chance to save her life. Where can he turn ? While we cannot help everyone, time and again you hear how the Shriners put on one of their "silly" shows for fund raisers to help kids just like that dying girl.<br /><br />The only silly show is the ongoing contention between men not in that life or death situation. The situation can be resolved in any number of ways that preserve Masonic fundamental goals. I urge Masons to campaign against ignorance and help bring more light to the GM of Michigan and the Shriner's Imperial. - Todd A. Kennard Attica / Imlay City #295Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-55660572892089670842012-01-23T08:12:11.976-05:002012-01-23T08:12:11.976-05:00Finally Someone else who understands the law and w...Finally Someone else who understands the law and will not convict a man based on the information he has been given or heard and you are right he has not been FOUND GUILTY of anythingThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11520290488546705645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-19501371713973444572012-01-22T16:35:23.398-05:002012-01-22T16:35:23.398-05:00After reading thru the comments and letters from t...After reading thru the comments and letters from the GM and Imperial Potentate it appears to me that the Potentate of Elf Khurafeh has plead guilty, plea held inabayance. This means, at least to me and according to law, has NOT been convicted. The GM has received inaccurate information or him or his advisors have misconscrued the defination of guilty to fit their purpose. One becomes guilty upon being sentenced for a crime, not when charged or pleadings are pending. GM please re-consider your edict and conform to Black Law dictionary.L. Goodleskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16308107050564041729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-17418442474149460702012-01-17T17:24:20.456-05:002012-01-17T17:24:20.456-05:00I do not believe so. Craig Hayes Hatch pled guilt...I do not believe so. Craig Hayes Hatch pled guilty to a five-year felony for operating illegal casinos and admitted to evading law enforcement. The Michigan Grand Master says he is not a Master Mason and that's good enough for me. <br /><br />In fact, it is more than good enough because I have great concern that the brethren are so wound up about the legal system that they are failing to acknowledge that he already admitted to un-Masonic behavior by his plead of guilty. <br /><br />This is not about the preponderance of the evidence, it is about our pursuit of both Morality and higher standards and his own admission of failure and unworthiness. Ill words spoken of such a man by other Masons is warranted because of such a fall from grace. He is not a Mason, nor was his actions those of one and he confessed to this when he admitted to his own guilt. <br /><br />I just wished that Mr. Hatch would of been considerate of the rest of the brethren nationwide and would have chosen to do the right thing and step aside so that this blemish would not have stained both this, our gentle Craft and the Shrine. <br /><br />http://mi.gov/ag/0,1607,7-164--251681--,00.htmlWarbardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08237425786865970019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-33405430177943006962012-01-16T12:24:30.465-05:002012-01-16T12:24:30.465-05:00I would just like to say this, The matter with The...I would just like to say this, The matter with The Brother involved just needs to go away, whenever I see a group of 5 or more masons together at least 2 of them are still talking about this. They all need to know depending what happens He can charge them with un masoinc conduct for talking about them in this matter. Yes it is a problem but it is being dealt with so drop it and let it go.Thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11520290488546705645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-15228924640738647402012-01-06T10:33:48.644-05:002012-01-06T10:33:48.644-05:00For one thing The Potentate was not convict of any...For one thing The Potentate was not convict of anything and no matter what happens he will always be MY BRTOTHER the vewis of 1 should not be forced on all which is just what the GM is doing here the The Potentate is and will always be a good manThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14068226468091802102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-90074334981049608062012-01-06T10:25:52.996-05:002012-01-06T10:25:52.996-05:00All of you poeple who are commenting on this matte...All of you poeple who are commenting on this matter who do not know THE BROTHER involved if all the facts need to stay out of it he has not been FOUND GUILTY of anything and is and will always be a good manThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14068226468091802102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-16040991372237178542012-01-02T14:23:10.332-05:002012-01-02T14:23:10.332-05:00The shrine is failing, reaching out for dues payer...The shrine is failing, reaching out for dues payers only. The El Hajj clubs are victims with the holy mother shrine attitude.humped camelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17972207480125440681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-89331920057017374582011-12-28T21:37:37.616-05:002011-12-28T21:37:37.616-05:00I for one am not happy that inexperienced masons c...I for one am not happy that inexperienced masons can now become Shriners. What was the point of joining masonry to simply skip the years of learning to rush to the Shrine for fun and sun?<br /><br />Secondly, if I were forced to choose between blue lodge or Shrine it wouldn't take me a split second to give away my fez.<br /><br />Lastly, rules or not, what man of any personal dignity would want to be a part of an organization that bends its high criteria for the sake of increased membership...ergo more money.<br /><br />The day the Shrine accepts non-masons is the day I leave, and the day the Shrine begins it's fast decline to has-been status.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-76104883574700619972011-12-27T12:48:44.905-05:002011-12-27T12:48:44.905-05:00Brother Nick Singelis II I greatly respect you and...Brother Nick Singelis II I greatly respect you and the effort you give to masonry and the shrine and you are in Michigan so can you explain your post because the Potentate did plead guilty and was senteced ? BTW nice radio program i think it is a great tool in membership <br /><br />Ricky CoxTexasMason32https://www.blogger.com/profile/06543245531393237863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-27067002548005660752011-12-21T21:45:50.678-05:002011-12-21T21:45:50.678-05:00Craig Hatch: Man, (former) mason, Shriner, and str...Craig Hatch: Man, (former) mason, Shriner, and strip club owner.<br />Regardless of this mans character, it is clear MWGM acted appropriately.<br /><br />http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2009/02/tavern_on_the_green_clubhouse.html<br /><br />MattAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08249233365086902712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-24521576281212133882011-12-07T04:12:26.554-05:002011-12-07T04:12:26.554-05:00Hello everyone I just got back from the lodge meet...Hello everyone I just got back from the lodge meeting the letter shocked everyone every mason there was worried if they should even come to any lodge shrine meeting again until shrine is ok. I did hear some talk after that the Elks lodge is looking more and more attractive to go to over Masonic. Which is what I thought would happen driving members to go else where its going to be some really hard months forward I Hope we have enough to keep form or even do anything. It really rocked the boat. I know some of you will say its just a bump in the road but fact is with out shrine we will not be able to keep blue lodge going. If shrine changes and let's other non masons in that will put blue lodge on life support with an order to pull the plug. I think adding Elks to Shrine would be most excellent. As I was told just hours ago there are some women thinking of joining blue lodge in Michigan. The bilaws prohibit that but as we now know Elks where men only too until a case was filed against the Elks. Needless to say Blue lodge of Michigan is now at War. It's going to be a bumpy ride. Please commentTonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03217210854706286997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-61648852509345913752011-12-05T22:24:19.405-05:002011-12-05T22:24:19.405-05:00John
It is my Opinion like anyone else.
But if i...John<br /><br />It is my Opinion like anyone else.<br /><br />But if i was Grand Master and i said anyone who goes to the church of Scientology is an atheist and there for all masons that go to that church are no longer members and band. With out going threw the process of appeal and waiting to the next Grand Lodge meeting that would be over stepping my authority.<br /><br />Yes a Grand Master can make a edict that concerns emergency decision if it affected the Grand Lodge in a Legal matter that would affect the peace and harmony of all lodges. But with what the GM did he jumped the gun and did not allow for due process proper time and the next meeting when Grand Lodge meets he can put out a message to all lodges of what is going on as in this mason is in question and is put on notice and write a communication to shrine that he is in violation of membership under Blue lodge and they have until the next Grand Lodge meeting to take action and conduct there own trial And file the proper paper work until then.<br /><br />His dictation has broken Harmony among all lodges which is in direct violating of the oath i took.<br /><br />With due process and the year to pass it would have been more acceptable for all Masons to hear this and voice there opinion represent there lodges and how it would have affected all Lodges and what this would do Financially as well as to members moral and what would happen.<br /><br />I know personally that there where people interested in joining blue lodge that are Elks members. But after hearing this it chased them away and they want nothing to do with Masonry now because there only interest to be masons was Shrine.<br /><br />Besides from my understanding Blue lodge owns no Buildings there renters and they have building associations they meet in. so his ruling would not affect Shrine anyways as far as meeting place.<br /><br />As myself i am a Wisconsin Mason as well as Michigan. I am a BEJA Shriner and i will still fallow Wisconsin GM rules when going to Shrine so Technically i am not disobeying or violating my oath to the GM. When i go the Green Bay i am totally a Wisconsin Mason When i am in Michigan i am a Michigan Mason But if i was not a Michigan Mason i would be a Wisconsin mason in Michigan and Wisconsin Rules fallow. See what will happen if this is not corrected in some way to bring Harmony. UP Masons will more than likely move there membership to Wisconsin or Canada so they can keep everything the way there used to and bring Harmony back to there Lodges. Since being a Shriner is not dependent on being a Michigan mason just a Master Mason from any recognized Grand Lodge.<br /><br />This is what concerns me. If this conflict with Shrine sticks other Grand lodges may not be recognized by Michigan Grand lodge in the coming years. that is why i suggested as well as others who have talked to me at forming a Northern Michigan Grand Lodge to preserve those ties. As that is what is scaring allot of Masons i talked to if there willing to let Shrine go away over one person then what is to say that Scottish Rite or York rite, Jobs, rainbow girls Demoly, Eastern Star is immune from dictation and fear of the wraith of the GM. I personally will not put up with it i would rather not belong to a Org. that expects you to be a slave to it than give up my personal Harmony.<br /><br />This is how i Believe, God and Family come first then your Job then Church fictions and then Extras likes Blue Lodge. If Blue Lodge starts to effect any of the other it is time to quit. And if i am worrying about where and when i might go that might effect my membership with Blue Lodge this is affecting my personal Harmony with my family and God and not acceptable.Tonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03217210854706286997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-10950436753341874542011-12-05T14:05:48.769-05:002011-12-05T14:05:48.769-05:00Tony,
I have a question for clarification purpose...Tony,<br /><br />I have a question for clarification purposes of my end.<br /><br />How did the Grand Master overstep his authority? I see the claim you are making but am curious under what basis you are making your claim or is it more of an opinion.<br /><br />Thank you,<br /><br />JohnDevils Advocatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17907090743743433504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-31354931167218533322011-12-04T15:40:40.789-05:002011-12-04T15:40:40.789-05:00I am replying to before comment would it be in the...I am replying to before comment would it be in the best interests of Masons to form a Grand Lodge of Northern Michigan? <br /><br />I believe it would. Reasons be that Northern Michigan has a much different way of life and thinking than the People who live in the Southern part of the state. There was at one time a strong but unsuccessful movement to have the UP and part of Northern Wisconsin become its own state called the state of Superior just because of these differences. If there was to be a Northern Michigan Grand Lodge it would make people and masons in the North, Easier to get along with as well as boost Activity in the lodges as the Laws and rules are very close to Grand lodge of Michigan but are more shaped for the masons for the Northern part of the state. This would only affect Blue lodge everything else would stay the same which is what most of the Aging membership would like. A Majority of the Members are older in the Northern Michigan area. It is very possible to have 2 Grand Lodges for example there is a Prince lodge is there not.<br /><br />Did you know that 15% of the maps printed don't even have the UP of Michigan on them! That is a fact in how people from the southern part of the country think and feel about the UP and some times northern LP of Michigan. <br /><br />These are reasons why i think it would be better for all Michigan masons to have 2 Grand lodges this action would not separate Masons but create an better feeling as well as the ability to reduce costs for both lodges. <br /><br />This would also attract Masons to come back to Michigan and be active in Lodge. The talk i have been hearing from Many Northern Michigan Masons that are not Officers are there switching the membership to Wisconsin over the GM ruling as this is not the first time a GM from the LP has over stepped there authority this happened with Eastern Star a number of years ago a GM said this is the way it will be or i am not allowing Blue Lodge masons to be in Star. There are many other examples that are not very Masonic as in the Belief and Oath i have taken as a Mason that have Happened in Grand Lodge of Michigan which may be very acceptable in the Southern Parts of the state but not in the Northern Parts.<br /><br />I have the benefit of being part of Wisconsin as well as Michigan. <br /><br />These are just my thoughts on ways to save and bring new Life to Masonry and avoid embarrassment in which Michigan members feel about Masonry after this action by GM of Michigan over stepping His authority with Shrine not His actions about the person in question tho.<br /><br />Wisconsin is rocking as new members are coming in more and more new life and activity compared to Michigan Lodges i think what ever Wisconsin is doing should be looked at. And Wisconsin Accepts Shrine <br /><br />Some of you may think this is not very masonic in how i think or type but i believe it would eliminate allot of the underline feelings people have about Masons from the North and from the South. We all meet Brothers on the Level but we dont always think on the Level that's when we Part on the Square . We are still human and to error is to be Human.Tonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03217210854706286997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-83700682738366384782011-12-02T21:01:54.711-05:002011-12-02T21:01:54.711-05:00It is a sad, nay tragic when Freemasons believe th...It is a sad, nay tragic when Freemasons believe that they are Shriners first. It is apparent that those Grand Jurisdictions are lacking in the proper teachings of Freemasonry when legal maneuvering of wording trumps what everyone knows is the right. Mr. Craig Hatch gave a plea of guilty; that is the end of it. I read Imperial's reply letter and they are way off base and need of a proper change of course. Simply put, Imperial is a NO GO and better get with the program because the blame and fault lies clearly with them in their disrespect of the Grand Lodge of Michigan. Poor form and it is sad that I do not hear more Michigan Brothers defending their Grand Master, who is clearly in the right to put a stop to Imperial's game of posturing for time; they gave him no choice. MW Fred Kaiser is not alone as you may wish to believe and frankly after reading some of the postings here, for being Masons some of you seemed to have forgotten, or are sadly out of touch with, what it means to be a Mason. A good Shriner is a great Mason and anyone who do not get this is missing the whole point completely and probably needs to get out of both. I admonish each of you to take the time and remember whence ye came.Warbardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08237425786865970019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-5671389150714498872011-12-01T23:05:17.357-05:002011-12-01T23:05:17.357-05:00Tony,
If you are a regular Mason, you took an oat...Tony,<br /><br />If you are a regular Mason, you took an oath to cheerfully conform to the rules and regs of your Grand Lodge.... and now you advocate splitting off and forming your own Grand Lodge?<br /><br />Do you believe that is in keeping with the oath you took?Wayfaring Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13751379276577510809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-22971134110116286022011-12-01T21:52:06.003-05:002011-12-01T21:52:06.003-05:00I am a Master of a Wisconsin Lodge and a Plural me...I am a Master of a Wisconsin Lodge and a Plural member in the UP i am also a member of BEJA shrine i will still attend Shrine meetings as Wisconsin has not passed this judgement. i am sure the Elks Lodge would be more than happy to accept Shrine into there Organisation. It is sad that this has become such a mess from someone i have no idea what is really going on. I have an idea why not isolate this Shrine from being in the Grand Lodge of Michigan versus punishing all the other Shrines in the state. The Shrine are now at odds with the there community. This is really bad taste i will predict that the fall of many local lodges will happen as many members will with draw membership when there told now they cant be in the Shrine the grand lodge has finally done something on the good side made it able to prove and pave the way to become a Shriner with out being a Mason. I am stating as of right now i am going to push for the Upper Michigan Northern LP to have its own Grand Lodge Since there are many Differences like this event that have nothing to do with what we are doing affecting us and telling us we now are enemy's over two boys that have high ranking title.<br /><br />What ever happened to believing in the Supreme Being i can see clearly Grand lodge likes to cast the first stone versus doing less extreme measure in saving face.<br /><br />If anyone is interested in forming a Grand Lodge for the Northern LP and UP that govern it self and work in cooperation much like Prince Lodges with Michigan Grand Lodge.<br />As this event if left unchecked will destroy and decimate Masonic lodges in the UP that are anchored to the Shrine and with most of the lodges being on the edge of having enough people to be there that have the only reason to stay members to be shriners this will divide everyone.<br /><br />my name is Tony you can email me at tpool90@gmail.com and help save the Upper Michigan and Northern LP from suffering in this disciplinary action. <br /><br />Thank You<br />God BlessTonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03217210854706286997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-41922163508279225242011-12-01T16:49:51.032-05:002011-12-01T16:49:51.032-05:00@RL Hays, Why do you assume that having less Mason...@RL Hays, Why do you assume that having less Masons that are not interested in being Masons in a Masonic lodge would be a bad thing? True, it will mean less "dues payers" but I think it would result in a stronger craft. I am not criticizing Shriners with this comment, I am just saying that if a man isn't interested in being a Mason then maybe he should not be one.Inspector5https://www.blogger.com/profile/12800569053417967833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-7781741133833232492011-12-01T08:18:48.325-05:002011-12-01T08:18:48.325-05:00@edwmax -- Off topic, but I've been waiting a ...@edwmax -- Off topic, but I've been waiting a few days for my forums.mastermason.com account to be activated. Can you assist?Matt Sheltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05311747798399924710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25683662.post-71685185857971734502011-12-01T01:33:40.000-05:002011-12-01T01:33:40.000-05:00These things come up rarely. They are usually sett...These things come up rarely. They are usually settled by cooler heads when the dust dies down. Simple facts are GM can expel - seems justified he expelled a confessed and convicted felon.<br />The Imperial Potentate needs a lesson in Masonic Law. All Masonic organizations must comply with and abide by all the rules and regulations of the Grand Lodge of the jurisdiction they are in. A visitor to MI would have to abide by not only with their own state but also MI rules and regs.<br />This could reach much farther if MI decided not to recognize Grand Jurisdictions that continue to recognize the Shrine.<br />As a side note this is the Shrine my father joined in 1942 and was a member until he passed away in 2000. I belonged to the Shrine here in LA but dropped my membership when they quit supporting the Rites. My observations are that there is much less friction between Shrine brothers that are members of a rite than those who just jumped from blue lodge into the Shrine and haven't benefited from the additional teachings of brotherly love they learn with continued participation in their Lodge and Rite.<br />Brett Mac Donald,<br />Scottish Rite 33 - York Rite KYCH<br />Covina, CABmacDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13731084444253892468noreply@blogger.com